What do you think? Changes at the Chowchilla's women's prison
The California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation wants to turn the women's prison in Chowchilla into a men's facility. The plan has met with some opposition from locals, who say a men's prison will bring negative impacts to Chowchilla and Madera County.
Read today's story here: http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2012/01/03/2177397/impact-of-shift-at-priso...
What do you think? Can the women's prison be change to a men's facility without negative effects? Should the change happen at all?
Kojak sees no difference....and besides, Kojak would prefer the prison was full of male armed robbers, rapists, and burglars....rather than a bunch of female check forgers, embezzlers, and petty thieves.
Afterall, the state is releasing many violent, predator male criminals due to lack of available prison space.
Kojak would rather have a female parolee forging a check at the 7-Eleven rather than a male parolee robbing it at the point of a sawed-off shotgun.
Wouldn't you?
Concern I would have is maybe an upgrade in security measures. Other than that, what's the dif.?
Afterall, the state is releasing many violent, predator male criminals due to lack of available prison space.
Kojak would rather have a female parolee forging a check at the 7-Eleven rather than a male parolee robbing it at the point of a sawed-off shotgun.
Wouldn't you?
My first thought is, exactly on point there TheoKojak!
But then, you knew there had to be a but...
I was reading awhile back that the reason for real concern is that families of male prisoners will follow them. Families of female prisoners do not. When the facility changes to male, Madera certainly, along with Fresno County, Madera County and Merced County, will have an influx of women with their children moving in to be close to their man in prison. This impacts the social services, schools, hospitals, etc. of the community by having, what usually is, families in need of support services. Putting a strain on already strained communities.
Then of course is the crime issues. Along with such women and children may come brothers, cousins and older children that may just be living the lifestyle of original prisoner.
Then once the male prisoner is released, his baby mama is close by, chances are he will settle in there instead of going back to where he was originally from.
These are real concerns to me as I watch our communities struggle with gang crime now, how bad will it get ?
Women stand by their man, but men won't do the same? Sad, if true...for many reasons.
Dawn, Kojak didn't want to waste space re-printing what was in the article......but families relocating near the prison is a wash with either male or female prisoners.
However, in Kojak's experience, it's usually women prisoners who draw a family to near the prison....first and foremost, because many of the women have children...children want to see momma...and children are getting the welfare and/or government check...so caretakers bring children closer to momma.
Male prisoners may have children also....but once the male has donated the sperm...and is no longer bringing money home....there aren't very many family members who care about male prisoners to uproot and move to someplace like Chowchilla or Merced...when all their friends and other family are in Compton, Oakland, or Sacramento.
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"Specifically, prison officials tried to ease concerns over the idea a male prison population would be accompanied by an influx of families to Chowchilla that would overwhelm social services and tax law enforcement resources.Hysen said families relocate for male and female prison populations at roughly the same rate, according to data collected by the state prison system.
Read more here: http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2012/01/03/2177397/impact-of-shift-at-priso...
If what you say is true--then keeping it a "women's prison" should be a priority for Madera and the surrounding counties!! Is that what's happened here? Is the prison in Atwater partly responsible for the gangs, violence and poverty we have in Merced County??? I can tell you this--Atwater was a much nicer town when Castle AFB was here and not that prison!!!
My vote is keep it a WOMAN'S FACILITY!!!
Based on a survey conducted by the Department of Corrections after the concern was raised earlier this year. Not exactly unbiased research.
I remember the hue and cry about all the negative impacts the Federal prison in Atwater was going to bring. After several years, NONE of them have materialized. Just as the hue and cry of turning Valley State into a men's facility will similarly fizzle once the transition is made and the supposed negative impacts do not materialize.
Do you REALLY think anyone pulls up roots and relocates to a burg like Merced or Chowcilla....to follow Johnny who's doing 26 to life for a drive-by shooting?
Most family members don't care.....and few will even remember Johnny by the time he's been sentenced to prison.
Without revealing too much, I can tell you that I was fairly close to the situation when USP Atwater was being proposed, approved, built, and opened (an unbiased observer from very up close you might say).
That being said, Dawn, with all due respect (and I do respect the intellect you display here and your ability to put your thoughts down in a coherent, well constructed manner), those things just DO NOT happen. Those were the EXACT reasons cited by those opposing USP Atwater, and NOTHING like that has even come REMOTELY close to materializing.
I certainly hope that you are correct. Really.
We moved here 15 years and bought a house in a little town called Atwater. The neighborhood was made up of good working-class and solid middle-class families. My older children grew up with kids they remain friends with. We never had any issues in our neighborhood, it was busy, but not noisy. We didn't even lock our doors when we left the house unless we were going away for more than the day.
The housing crash ensued and we have watched the neighborhood slowly change. Foreclosures have driven the value of our house down and left empty properties and houses bought for a discount turned into rentals have changed the dynamics/demographics of our neighborhood.
My fence was gang tagged the day before Halloween. Twice, in the weeks leading up to Christmas, someone tried to break into my house when my daughter and granddaughter were home alone after I left to pick up my youngest from school. We now have a security system and lock our doors even when we are home.
We can't sell our house for a reasonable price and move, because there are just too many houses still going for foreclosed prices in the neighborhood.
Once our oldest daughter gets on her feet (she finally left her POS husband) we might just sell anyway, even if it means getting a price way below what it should reasonably bring just to move someplace a little "quieter".
I would really hate to see it get worse because of a change in the prison system in Chowchilla.
Haven't there been three or four escapes from the minimum security side of the Atwater prison?
I realize those that have escaped are in minimum security but it still is an unwanted consequence IMO.
Atwater hasn't change--for the worse--since Castle left and the prison came in its place!!
I graduated from Atwater High YEARS ago so I've seen the change--first hand!! The Determine Dr. area was a nice area where Airmen were the ones renting--NOW look at it--nothing but gang bangers!!
We lived in a neighborhood similar to yours Dawn--but like yours--it started going down hill as well!! The military people who bought in our neighbor moved out and many turned into rentals!! Fortunately, we sold before it got bad and moved further out to a better school district. Well, fast forward 25+ years later--NOW we not only have an alarm but a good size dog as well and I'm grateful for both!! Fortunately, we've never had any problems but there has been crime in the area and you can never be too sure it won't happen to you someday!! Better to be safer than sorry!!
Theres alot more to it than that. Roughly 20 years ago, castle afb, was an actual air force base, Atwater more so than Merced or any other place was filled with military personnel, filled with families close to their working husbands and fathers, ARMED MILITARY people at that. Neighborhoods were filled with children playing happily and TWO PARENT households were more dominant. With the closure of Castle AFB all those ARMED MILITARY people and nice families MOVED. BIG Vacum and with all those empty homes comes the RENTERS............and slowly but surely it became crappier and crappier.
When you moved here fifteen years ago you DONT KNOW WHAT A NICE NEIGHBORHOOD IN MERCED OR ATWATER WAS, OR maybe you did, but Trust me, 15 years ago I was 15, in highschool and ATWATER WAS CRAP, AND STILL IS.....Only difference is 15 years ago, Merced wasnt so CRAPPY, now its as bad as atwater. Atwater was always the smaller quieter of the two towns, but alot more CRAPPY. Less beautiful homes, Less shoping, Less jobs, Less EVERYTHING.
The neighborhoods in Merced and Atwater really starting falling apart after the closure of Atwater in the 90s........Simple as that.
The demographics changed when Castle closed, but the gangs started infiltrating slowly before that. The prison has had nothing to do with the changes in Atwater and Merced as far as I can tell. As to Valley State Prison, it does have an electric fence surrounding the "behind the wall" area and that will kill a person.
You're correct, the changes in Atwater particularly (especially the Determine area) and Merced to some degree (Loughborough area for sure) are a result of Castle AFB closing, it has absolutely nothing to do with USP Atwater. Anyone who says otherwise has no clue what they're talking about.
AFTER READING THE ARTICLE, there are many who are worried about the adverse effects of having a men's prison instead of the women's one there were promised!!! How ANYONE can say for certain what effect it may have on that community is beyond me--and the residents--that's why they are concerned!!!!
It's not like "we" haven't been LIED to before!! Now, I maybe wrong--but originally weren't the residents of Atwater TOLD our prison was going to be a MINIMUM security prison??? Isn't it a MAXIMUM security prison instead????
For the residents of Chowchilla's sake--I hope 35 is right and that fence works!!!
they change it to a mens prison, the population in the town will increase given the "theory" that men don't follow "their women". You see, it will benefit Chowchilla to have it be a men's prison so the population does increase. That way the schools and other public entities get more money from the state based on said population. Did you know that already the count from the womens prison is counted in with the population of the citizens of Chowchilla? Why do you think cities want a jail, prison near them? Don't you think Atwater has benefited by having the fed prison there?
"Why do you think cities want a jail, prison near them?"
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Cm'on Happy! Kojak hasn't counted...but it's probably about 7 out of 10 posters are against the prison.
Then again, about 7 out of 10 Americans all say "not in my back yard" regarding just about anything.
what 7 out of 10 posters say they want or don't want.
The prison system will do what it wants to do...after wasting lots of time to 'study' the effects.
It's plain to see.
There is a state prison near Desert Center on I-10. The perfect place for a prison. Miles from anywhere and nice and hot in the summer and nice and cold in the winter and if you are an inmate that likes Joshua Trees then you will be very happy.
I agree!!! Everytime we drive past San Quentin I think about the price of THAT land!!! Those prisoners have a view that some pay $500+ a night for! Have you ever stayed at Highlands Inn in Carmel??
Kojak--I think you may have missed Happy's point. You're probably right when you say 7 out of 10 residents DON'T want a prison but Happy stated it's the CITIES that do!!
Personally, I'd rather it stay a women's facility--we already have a MAXIMUM security prison in our front yard--we don't need one in our backyard too!! Unfortunately, cities don't always want what their residents want!!!
VSP and CCWF are in Chowchilla and both are a 4 level prison system.....from minimum to maximum....the only difference is that CCWF also has a death row section. We already have the Maximum Security prisons in both of our yards.
I like having a prison in the middle of nowhere. It's sounds like paradise for all citizens (Innocent ones that is!!)
They'll make a better target.
In the people's republic of California eventually anyway, with all the laws. They can just imprison us in our homes, save a bunch of money.
How about releasing all the stupid low level drug offenders, deport all illegals in jail, and CLOSE DOWN some of the prisons??
Oh, yeah, that's just a fiscally conservative idea, that collides with the social conservatives that want life sentences for smoking a joint.
Maybe if we didn't have correctional officer as the number one job growth area in CA we could rebuild our economy...oh, and the Democrats REALLY APPRECIATE all those new Union hires you all advocate for, 2% of a CO's salary is much better than the regular city workers.
You're right--BUT I'd rather have one be a women's--they don't seem to be as violent!!
I'm one of those 7 Kojak mentioned and I agree with some of the others--IF I had my way neither would be here--they would be some place far, far away!!!
we could save millions of dollars if we just took those full felons and flew them over a desert and threw them out at 30,000 ft. I for one am sick and tired of paying for Charles Manson and all those like him. Take the gang banging freaks and send them overseas since they like to act so big and give them a gun and turn them loose on the taliban. I know I'm going to insight some kind of cyber riot here, but frankly I'm fed up with the cost of supporting losers. Then we wouldn't need MORE prisons, MORE guards, MORE wasted money... Those of you out there that like to support such things, just keep being happy you are doing it.
You sir are my idol from now on, but in all seriousness, I do agree with your statement.
I would reopen Alcatraz and send them there along with the worst women prisoners. Isn't one of the Manson b*tches there?